But being new to the church and so unacquainted with church matters and such things I was not much help. As someone told him, You didnt have a crisis of faith but a Failure of Faith. We have to learn to get along and improve our conditions wherever we are and it is a much more difficult task because of all the varied belief systems prevalent in the world. Read More: Where is Terri Christensen Now? Its very sunny in London today and Ive listened too all eleven hours of this interview. I always enjoyed our discussions years ago about your love for the Indians in your mission and then your experience doing research with their culture and you feelings towards the Book of Mormon. I served a mission with the missionary mentioned by Brent. Ive struggled to understand the human mind in this regard. "BoMor" is a contraction preferred by Brent Metcalfe, who edited the book in which this paper appeared, and who likewise does not believe in the historicity of the Book of Mormon -- Metcalfe was exxed I think sometime after the infamous September Six. 1. Over the years you just reason, that a faith shouldnt be that complicated. Im not sure why I would have been hesitant to answer the question during the interview since Ive addressed it numerous timesIll have to go back and listen. This is definitely a not-miss interview. Given that, do you think that Joseph Smith deliberately plotted, prepared, researched, drafted, re-drafted the book over several years, or did it flow spontaneously from his subconscious mind in ways even he didnt understand? Brent is a fascinating interview for Mormon Stories for many reasons, including: Please post your questions for Brent here. Is having spiritual experiences while doing what some may view as critical research on the Book, when you know there may be opposing views to your work, grounds for also having these feelings? brent metcalfe excommunicated. Fixed: Release in which this issue/RFE has been fixed.The release containing this fix may be available for download as an Early Access Release or a General Availability Release. Shortly after returning home and leaving the church he was very active in Sunstone and various things of that nature, but has since moved on with his life and seems very happy with a small family of his own running a small restaurant he and his older brother own together. At one point John asks you if you think JS was putting together a scam or if you believe that he believed it himself. I thought your essay in New Approaches was excellent, and certainly complicates traditional understandings of the Book of Mormon; you obviously dont believe the BoM is historical in any way, but Id also guess you would acknowledge the impressive complexity of it. What has been the ramifications to your excommunication among other family members? The October 1985 bombings that killed two individuals and severely injured another was initially assumed to be related to a financial business. As a Mormon History and Rare Document Researcher, Brent Metcalfe has unparalleled knowledge of the religion and its connections in Utah. In it, Metcalfe himself wrote an essay that was the first to advance the Mosiah priority theory, or that Joseph Smith began dictating the Book of Mormon from the Book of Mosiah. african american gastroenterologist near me; district 36 lofts; how to turn off scan text on iphone 12 Yet a solid and detailed examination oflhe pre suppositions, methods, arguments, and conclusions of the vari ous readings of the Book of Mormon would still be very use Download . Its great to find all this background information. Biography [ edit] As a prep wrestler, Metcalf went undefeated with a career record of 228-0, won four consecutive Michigan state titles, and earned six junior national titles. Nicely done, John. He could have never imagined the true extent of Marks crimes, though. I still remember the demo you and your friends gave in the Rec Hall for Mutual. I have never heard of the description that its like talking to someone in the airport on their cell phone, with all the background noise. I love the podcasts. I have some insights into that. :). He was going to have him thrown out of the church. Thank You for contributing your experiences with us all I am curious this morning about the possibility of any reports during the time JS says he had his First Vision, that were published in local newspapers, town Crier printings? He also discusses the events leading up to, and including, his excommunication. Looking forward to the interview! sorry, the book is called The Joseph Smith Egyptian Papyri, Not a question but I would very much like to hear Brents response to Kerry Muhlesteins recent FAIRMormon Conference presentation on the Book of Abraham. Life seemed euphoric until I was excommunicated from the church because I questioned and I researched. Resolved: Release in which this issue/RFE has been resolved. The interview was superb and the insight into this extraordinary life was gifted. This one is up there with the best. The Gift of the Mormon Faith Crisis Podcast. Until Vatican II, many scholars felt hamstrung by the churchs dogma on the Bible and related theological issues. However, they still mention other things in their presentations (if you can stand to listen to them; I dont particularly like Jake Hiltons rhetoric, but Wayne May is pretty interesting to listen to)that are pretty fascinating and almost convincing. "Mark deceived everyone," Co-director Jared Hess told Deseret News. But such intellectual issues didnt play a role in my failure of faith. 497: Brent Metcalfe Part 3 -- After the Hofmann bombings and his excommunication (Podcast Episode 2014) on IMDb: Movies, TV, Celebs, and more. hillside christian church staff/ brent metcalfe excommunicated Create a Word Cloud at Tagxedo.Com. The LDS Church fired Brigham Young University professor David Wright for his contribution to the volume, and excommunicated both Wright and Metcalfe shortly thereafter. Rude Dog Never fear! Ultimately, Id say (and I dont know that youd fundamentally disagree here) that its impossible to separate traditions like Catholicism or Mormonism from their fundamental and unique truth claims. John and I recorded an additional four hours (till 1 AM). Little trace of Morison survives for much of the early 1540s, but it is clear that he built up his landed base and attached himself to . Growing up in the Eleventh Ward, you seemed very different than the Terry, Larry and Scott group. [7] The LDS Church fired Brigham Young University professor David Wright for his contribution to the volume, and excommunicated both Wright and Metcalfe shortly thereafter. If you were to interview Mark Hofmann, what would your top questions be? I hope to move on some day as well. Robert Ritner, Egyptologist, wrote a recent book the Joseph Smith Papyri in which he acknowledges your encouragement for that project. That said, I have to wonder what planet hes living on when he says that Catholicism has been reinvigorated in the post Vatican II era. I have been thinking nonstop about that analogy, because it is so illustrative of the disorder. I've debated whether or not I should write about this, as I'm well aware the reception may be inflammatory, however it's something I'd like to get off my chest. They use evidences such as paintings from the 1600s showing native americans using temple signs/tokens, apparent cuneiform writings being discovered that spell Yod Hey Va, and that the Hopewell/Adena Indians are the Nephites/Jaredites. I heard he had left the church soon after returning home. Awesome. Phooey to that. In these two episodes we discuss: 1) The aftermath of the Mark Hofmann bombings, and Brent's. I will start my question with a short story to add some perspective. Very informative. Anyone know what that is and where I can find out more? If so, what will be the subject? What do you attribute this decline to? "The Mormon murders: A true story of greed, forgery, deceit, and death." Brent Metcalf (born July 14, 1986) is an American freestyle wrestler who formerly competed in the international circuit for the United States of America. It was soul-crushing, Brent said. We were not suppose to discuss the Temple, Blacks and Priesthood, and of course definitely not curtain parts of the church history such as polygamy and polyandry. I was hoping you would have spoken more about the Book of Mormon and Abraham. [3] Current historians tend to agree that Scotford and Soper joined forces to sell the fake relics for personal profit. Theres the answer. Brent_Metcalfe 7 yr. ago To clarify 4blockhead's list. Cultural Context Preceding the Book of Mormon, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/493__Brent_Metcalfe_Part_1.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/494__Brent_Metcalfe_Part_2.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-497-BrentMetcalfePt3.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-498-BrentMetcalfePt4.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-499-BrentMetcalfePt5.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-499b-BrentMetcalfePt6.mp3, https://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/trackingconfessions1.htm, Signature Books Mormon News, October 1317. Once the Catholic scholar feels freed from the ostensible constraints of Catholic theology, it is questionable to what degree his scholarship is distinctively Catholic in the first place. I would love to hear more about what unfolded after Hoffman, including how you came to be excommunicated, if you care to share that. In episode #276 of The Jimmy Rex Show, we sit down with a key role in Netflix Documentary Murder Among The Mormons, Brent Metcalfe.Visit and Listen to more. This podcast inspired me to read the book Mormon Murders. [4], In 1993 Metcalfe organized a group of scholars to publish a series of essays that sought to apply techniques of higher criticism to the Book of Mormon. Movies. Id like to hear Mr. Metcalfe address the character, integrity and morals of LDS apostles and prophets with regard to the books of A and M. Regarding the recent essay published by the LDS church regarding the Book of Abraham; what does he think they got right and what does he think is wrong? Please let us know. !Cmoninstead, they were duped arranged for major amounts of $ to buy the letter up,bury it and then lie. Thats what I expected from church leaders.I meanSalamander spirit !! Please, God, let this podcast inspire someone to produce a talk show called, Hot-tubbing with Mark Hoffman! Other early-19thC religionists were even more literal in their descriptions. He was enthusiastic about scholars allegedly validating his translations through secular methods (e.g., Charles Anthon on the BoMor characters and Michael Chandlers anonymous scholars on the BoAbr papyri). They have proven time and time again that that is all they care about. what happens if i ignore a ccj; I have one teensy-tiny criticism about Johns sensitivity when someone questioned why Brent did not pursue an advanced degree. This is one of my all-time favorites. It was so amazing to hear another person explain nearly my identical experience. They are in a tough spot. Why didnt the Lord reveal to the prophet that the documents were forged? I do not have that ability as I actually changed an Economics major when I took my first accounting class. Reminds me of the Mormon interpretation of Amos 3:7 (Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets). I teared up with Brent during that part. As I went towards the house, this thought came into my mind, why do I feel so different from what I did a short time past : I am unspeakably happy and shall never see trouble again.. I am quite sure, that film is no longer shown. See the next John Whitmer Historical Association Journal for one of my essays. It is better thought of by non-Catholics (generally), but this has not translated into conversions or retention of cradle Catholics. Why have you distanced yourself from actively publishing and engaging topics on forums as you did in years past? Privacy Policy. Maxine Hanks was also in my ward. In other words, if it is an intrinsic aspect of a tradition to make historical claims or assertions about the underlying nature of the world, the falsification of those claims essentially undermines the character of that tradition. Awesome music, right? Thank you so much for the story and the insights. Honestly, incredible work. She also noted that after JS none of the preceding Church leaders really got what he was trying to do/teach in this realm. Excellent question. Brent's review of challenges to traditional approaches to the Book of Mormon. For the listeners who are curious, a portion of the book describes a first vision, copied below: https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&output=reader&id=XH0rAAAAYAAJ&pg=GBS.PA54, The Lamb once slain appeared to my understanding, and while viewing him, I felt such love to him as I never felt to anything earthly. Get all the information related to Cardinal Health Nps Online - Make website login easier than ever The membership on the website. Brent Lee Metcalfe is an independent researcher and writer of the Latter Day Saint Movement. I was a writer for 7th East Press. Andrew, Joseph Smith dictated the story of princess Katumin and her regal father Onitas to his scribes Oliver Cowdery and William W. Phelps, who recorded the tale in two small notebooks. Boy, what a chilling conclusion. Hearing Brent break down the Hoffman timeline and story was amazing. Metcalfe subsequently resigned from the Seventh East Press and told Sunstone that he would no longer write for them. On acquiring a PhD, after a year of university, apart from a lack of finances, I quickly noticed that the degree factory isnt a reflection on ones intelligence. Categories . :-) I really R E A L L Y loved the podcast, and will listen to it all again today. Oh, that would be great! John and I are just trying to align our schedules, so expect parts 3 & 4 soon. I shared this source with Mike Quinn when he was writing _Early Mormonism and the Magic World View_. It was awful so stressful. This is what led me here! Two more parts (3 & 4) to come. In Part 2, Brent describes working for and with Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, the Salamander Letter episode, and the bombings that took the lives of Steve and Kathy Sheets. A member of the LDS Church reports he was excommunicated for apostasy on February 2nd, 2013. Some people who study and read deeply can be more expert than others with advanced degrees. Salamander: The story of the Mormon forgery murders. No one believed that any one person could do all of those forgeries and build those bombs, and kill those people . It instead discusses the fact that the LDS Church keeps some documents secret. But before Brent could truly move on, he had to deal with the emotional turmoil of knowing that he was associated with Mark Hofmann. @John, thank you for all the hours you put in. After years of palling around with anti-Mormon apostates (e.g. Ive followed Mormon stories for several years now and listed to most of the episodes and this interview with Brent Metcalfe is in my top 5 MS podcasts. [2][3], At first Metcalfe was placed on 30 days probation by the LDS Security department and ordered to "sever yourself from involvement with people, groups, or publications that teach doctrines, privately or publicly, which are contrary to those of the Prophet." Im with you on the music Charles!! Priestly and monastic vocations have dropped through the floor, sexual abuse has skyrocketed (its not just that it was always happening but was exposed recently, it is pretty clear that sex abuse itself has gone way up post Vatican II), church attendance is way down, retention rates among youth have plummeted- one could go on. Netflixs Murder Among the Mormons is a limited series that profiles the exploits of Mark Hofmann, who planned and executed a deadly event in Salt Lake City, Utah, that left the Latter-day Saints Church shaken to its very core. brent metcalfe excommunicated. [9][10] His father was the managing director of the Temple Department for the LDS Church. Broad topics include my excommunication plus BoMor and BoAbr research. Im glad the church and BYU tried and I dont blame them for making the attempt to shore up the Book of Mormon. Be the first to contribute! Yes, because remember that the paradigm speaking through Mikes words is not just representative of him. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. In this fascinating conversation Brent details that while working for Church security he was working on scholarly endeavors that he hoped would help contribute to apologitic defenses of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Release Calendar Top 250 Movies Most Popular Movies Browse Movies by Genre Top Box Office Showtimes & Tickets Movie News India Movie Spotlight. I went to BYU and graduated with honors but I did everything I could to get out of reading or to read beforehand what I could be asked to read out loud. Brent Metcalf's last collegiate wrestling match was a highly anticipated one. There is a newish movement who rejects that the book of mormon ever occurred in South America. I was there at the very beginning. As a teenager and still TBM I read some books on the Hoffman Salamander Letter and events surrounding it. All of these documents are available on the Joseph Smith Papers Project website. Thanks, John and Brent! Metcalfe believed that his firing was because of a few people in church leadership who perceived him as a threat, even though he viewed his own work as apologetic and not scholarly. The second half was fascinating thank you, thank you, thank you for this podcast! My question is: please discuss this shift or emphasis away from evidences and honest research (study it out in your mind), to just feelings, in regards to determining truth. Do you have any idea what his views are now about the church, what he did, etc.? Brent Lee Metcalfe is an independent researcher and writer of the Latter Day Saint Movement. Sorry for my language, Im not a native English speaker and there is a limit to what I can express in English. As an atheist I am not without my own inconvenient truths. What about your book did the church find cause to excommunicate you? It was fascinating and enlightening to see the underbelly of ongoings between church leaders and members. Why didnt the Lord reveal to the the prophet that Hofmann was going to kill? https://egyptianalphabetandgrammar.blogspot.com/. My epiphany also came suddenly, while driving, followed by a massive emotional experience. She was excommunicated for it and it was ironic that her uncle, David O'McKay, was a member of the twelve apostles at the time (and later became Prophet.) Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. My application of Vatican II was specifically intended for the work of Catholic biblical scholars, not Catholicism in toto. Charles, I dont think I threw the baby out with the bathwater since my examination of the Hebrew and Christian scriptures resulted in the same intellectual concerns that I had with LDS scriptural extensions. What historical issues does he think are most worthy of exploration, and how would he suggest young aspiring researchers go about gathering and parsing primary and secondary sources? All rights reserved. It also struck me that Brent in some ways represents the inverse of Sandra Tanner. It is those moments of intimacy that really help me connect to the humanity of the interviewee. Perhaps she remembers me, the useless home teacher. I was a newly returned missionary at BYU when all of this took place. He also talks about his early forays into Mormon studies. Indeed, the trivial matters that many theists assert as claiming the attention of God (even as hell is meanwhilebreaking loose) is absurd evidently too absurd for many to even grasp. Its likely that our paths could have crossed. In fact, Brent was with Mark the night before he caused the first explosion. All things praised God with me. Leave a Reply Cancel reply. How did you encourage this masterpiece which, in my opinion, decimates the churchs past claims on the BofA? This was interesting all around. These scholars included Dan Vogel, Stan Larson, David P. Wright, and John Kunich. but he threw out the baby with the bath water as if the success of Christianity rode on the success of Joseph Smith.. If you hadnt been excommunicated would you still be a member today? That makes more sense. 497: Brent Metcalfe Part 3 -- After the Hofmann bombings and his excommunication (2014 Podcast Episode) Plot Showing all 0 items Jump to: Summaries It looks like we don't have any Plot Summaries for this title yet. During the first part of his interview, usually John will ask a question about gaining a testimony while in the Mormon church or have spiritual experiences and then pairing those experiences with the Mormon narrative. How have things changed over the decades? Im definitely a fan. Learn how your comment data is processed. The church history claims there was a great uproar about this youth that claimed to have a vision of God. Where we should push back is, if someone solely discredits someone without examples of where their information is wrong or flawed ie simply attacking the messenger instead of the message. Cookie Notice Who does he think the last bomb was meant for? Im glad you found some of my remarks useful and thanks for the kind comments. It seems like in the aftermath of the bombings, combined with his zeal to argue the history of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe was excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.